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We Need to Talk About Proud Tips and Blade Rap on Traditional Slipjoints

I’ve had enough of it, and it’s time someone said it; proud tips and blade rap are manufacturing defects that are far too prevalent on traditional slipjoint knives. Proud tips and blade rap are issues that plague slipjoints across the spectrums of price, quality, and manufacturer. So, what are they, why are they a problem, and what can be done about them?

What is a proud tip?

A proud tip, simply put, is when the tip of the blade sits above the blade well when closed. What is considered a proud tip can vary depending on the shape of the blade and handle, and the personal preference of the observer. That said, if you can catch a fingernail under the tip of the blade when its closed that is a definite indicator of a proud tip.

What is blade rap?

Blade rap is when the edge hits against the spring when the blade is closed. Many people assume when they hear it said that it is “blade wrap” because of the edge damage that it causes. However, I have always known it to be “rap” meaning to rap against the spring, like “rapping at the window”. This happens because the momentum of the blade closing due to the spring pressure of the backspring causes the blade to overtravel and hit against the inside of the backspring (usually at the backspring pin hump). This causes edge deformation, usually in the form of rolling but sometimes pure flattening or occasionally even chipping.

What makes them legitimate issues?

Both proud tips and blade rap are legitimate manufacturing defects because they cause practical issues.

A proud tip, though unlikely, could catch on clothing fabric and inadvertently partially open the blade risking injury or even directly catch on skin when you reach in a pocket and potentially cause injury. Now, some people will say “well you can just file the kick, so it’s not a real issue” (my video on filing a kick). While it is true you can usually fix a proud tip by filing the kick, there’s two reasons that doesn’t excuse a proud tip. First, filing a kick involves an extremely fine balance between filing enough that the tip falls below the handle without filing too much and causing blade rap. Second, and more importantly, the consumer should not have to modify a product for it to function correctly.

Blade rap is more straight forward; an edge with damage doesn’t cut as well. Sure, the damage is usually only on a very small portion of the blade, but that doesn’t change the fact that that area will catch and not cut like the rest of the edge. Now, some people will say “well blade rap just means that the company fit as much blade into the blade well as possible”. The argument there is that the more blade is fit into the handle the more sharpenings a blade can take and therefore the longer working life the knife will have. While that is technically true, it doesn’t make up for the downside of blade rap for two reasons. First, either you have a knife that doesn’t cut as well as it could or you sharpen out the blade rap and take away that extra blade height. Second, and more importantly, the consumer should not have the modify a product for it to function correctly.

Now, being the astute and attentive reader you are, I’m sure you noticed that both second reasons and final sentences in the previous two paragraphs are the same. Therein lies the real crux of the issue; no matter the upsides or how easily the issues are rectified by the owner, knives should not come with practical issues from the manufacturer and consumers shouldn’t be expected to accept those issues.

What can be done about them?

So, what could be done to mitigate the issues of proud tips and blade rap?

Well, as mentioned above the consumer can often fix these issues themselves if they have the tools and will to do so. But, as I mentioned above, I don’t think consumers should have to do those things on a new knife. Aside from fixing them themselves, I think the only thing for a consumer to do is let the manufacturer know that they are unhappy with their knife coming with these issues. You could also return knives to the dealer that come with these issues. I personally have reached a point (after getting an Albers Cutlery Company knife with blade rap and being frustrated by trying to fix it myself) that I intend to commit to not keeping any knife that comes with either of these issues. This can actually be more difficult than it might seem. If you fight through the drops and finally secure a highly sought after Great Eastern Cutlery knife, it can seem like a small issue like a proud tip or blade rap isn’t worth sending the knife back… and maybe it’s not!

Better yet, there are things the manufacturer can do to mitigate these issues. One thing that some brands, like A.G. Russell and LionSteel, have implemented is a stop pin. Using more accurate methods of cutting out blanks, like laser cutting or EDM rather than punching with dies, could help to get more consistent interfacing between the kick and the backspring and therefore making proud tips less likely. A stop pin stops the momentum of the blade closing and doesn’t allow for the overtravel that the backspring does, which makes blade rap much less likely.

Of course, I’m not an engineer or involved in knife manufacturing in any way, so it’s not my place to make suggestions or assumptions about the process. I just love traditional slipjoints and want to see them be as good as they can be. I hope that these issues become less common and help slipjoints continue their rise back to quality and popularity.

My wife’s observations of my experiences with blade rap;

A Guide to getting rid of your blade rap:

  1. buy some fancy sharpening stuff
  2. find a tiny miniscule little nick on the blade to nit pick for several days at a time
  3. set up in the most annoying location possible, so the most people can hear the horrible noise of the knife sharpening.
  4. sharpen the knife
  5. feel the blade
  6. swear
  7. Repeat 4-6 5-7x before you become disgusted and swear that you’ll never buy this type of knife again.
  8. buy that type of knife again.

I sincerely thank you for your time, support, and interest! Don’t forget to tell your friends about KnifeThoughts.com, subscribe via email, and share this article on social media. You can find Knife Thoughts on YouTube where I have hundreds of knife videos, as well as on Instagram and Facebook! You can find all my latest links at LinkTr.ee/KnifeThoughts

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Don’t miss one of the best values ever on a hard use EDC knife!

To make a long and still developing story short, Cold Steel was sold to GSM Outdoors recently and since then several knife models have gone on deep sales. I was recently able to get a Voyager XL Drop Point for the incredible price of ~$48 from Midway USA, and you can watch my unboxing video below. These price cuts are in contrast to price increases across the knife market, including some significant hikes in the Cold Steel catalog.

So, even though this isn’t the usual type of article for Knife Thoughts, I wanted to post about the incredible deal right now on the Cold Steel 4 Max Scout (Amazon affiliate link).

I bought a 4 Max Scout for ~$100 from White Mountain Knives in 2020, and I feel that it was a good value for the knife. By the way, White Mountain Knives has the knife for ~$85 right now so you can get it for ~$77 with my discount code “KnifeThoughts”. I think that’s an amazing value for this knife if you’d rather not patronize Amazon.

I have used my 4 Max Scout a lot for everything from breaking down cardboard to splitting tinder in the almost 2 years I’ve had it. I have never had any issues, never had to adjust the pivot, it has incredibly smooth action, rock solid lock up, and have sharpened it several times with no real difficulty. To put it frankly, I think this is the best budget hard use type folding knife available right now. Sure, some might scoff at the nylon handles and AUS-10A steel but I doubt anyone who’s really used the knife will have any concerns over the materials. They’re not high end or fancy, but there’s no question they work. Plus, there’s essentially no difference between the design of this budget version and the multi-hundred dollar version. It still has the insanely strong Demko Triad lock and great design reminiscent of Demko’s customs. It’s just a super solid knife that can handle anything that any folding knife could with a great design that makes it easier to carry and use than you’d expect of such a big knife.

Now, the 4 Max Scout isn’t for everyone. It’s a VERY big knife. It isn’t ground ultra thin for slicing performance like a kitchen knife or something like the Paramilitary 2. You also might want to sand under the clip a bit so that it doesn’t wear down your pants pocket too much. But it’s a big burly budget friendly blade at a steal of a price. I highly recommend it even at the normal price, let alone about 50% off. I actually bought a backup, and I don’t hesitate to suggest that you get one at this price… who knows how long the sale will last!

I sincerely thank you for your time, support, and interest! Don’t forget to tell your friends about KnifeThoughts.com, subscribe via email, and share this article on social media. You can find Knife Thoughts on YouTube where I have hundreds of knife videos, as well as on Instagram and Facebook! You can find all my latest links at LinkTr.ee/KnifeThoughts


As an aside, I realize I haven’t posted an article in a long time. I have started and almost finished several, but just haven’t been able to complete them to my satisfaction. It’s been a hectic several months. But I will be finishing and posting them soon, so make sure you’re subscribed via email and to my other media outlets!

Some links in this article are affiliate links. That means that if you click them and purchase the product you won’t pay any more than you normally would, but I get a commission from the sale. This is just a way for you to support Knife Thoughts. Be sure to try my discount codes “KnifeThoughts” or “KT10”!

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The Cotton Sampler; Obscure Pattern with an Unclear History

One of the most engaging aspects of traditional slipjoint knives is the myriad of unique patterns that have been made, and a great example can be found in the Cotton Sampler. The Cotton Sampler is a relatively little known and sparsely made pattern that has, like many traditional patterns, an obscure history. In this article I’ll discuss some of the pattern’s variations, possible background, and current versions.

Companion Video!

Description

There are two distinct blade shapes and corresponding handle shapes that have been given the name “Cotton Sampler”. One type of Cotton Sampler has a backward curved handle, like a swayback, (though some versions have a straight frame) and a hefty straight edged blade with a straight spine and abrupt angle toward the tip. This type looks very similar to a typical harvester or sailor knife, but often with an even taller blade. The other, more unique, type has a forward curved handle and a blade that deserves its own sentence to describe. The blade on this type has a long unground ricasso, often around an inch long, between the kick and the edge itself, which curves abruptly toward a small clipped tip. It makes for a blade that looks like a squatter spay shape with an unground extension from the handle. While both these shapes have been called Cotton Samplers, today the term is almost exclusively used for the latter style.

Schatt & Morgan Example of the Swayback Type

History

So, what’s the story behind these interesting knives? Well, it seems the pattern shapes themselves likely predate the name. The first style described above is just a slight variation of an ancient pattern that can be found in the earliest Sheffield pattern books (and likely much earlier, as some Roman knives have similar designs). It’s a classic agriculture pattern well suited for the pull cuts prevalent in those uses. On the other hand, the second style is less typical. The earliest example with this unusual blade shape can be found in a 1903 Schatt & Morgan catalogue, but isn’t identified as a Cotton Sampler. It actually has a rounded unground area, rather than the flat type seen on later examples, that is heavily reminiscent to finger choils on modern knives (at least to my eyes). Considering that a knife of the same shape in a 1938 Maher & Grosh catalogue is identified as a “Skinning Knife”, I think it is likely that this version of the Cotton Sampler pattern started as a sportsman’s knife and was later repurposed for agricultural use. That said, I have seen an explanation of the unusual blade shape proposed in several places. Apparently the tall blade with abrupt edge is used to cut into a bale of cotton and act like a spoon to extract a sample (hence the name), and the flat unground area is used to rub the cotton fibers to somehow ascertain the quality of the product. While it’s not my place or intention to claim what is or isn’t fact in this notoriously murky realm of knife history, I find it likely that the previously described use evolved to fit an already existing pattern and then that use influenced the evolution of the pattern itself.

Schatt & Morgan 1903 Catalogue

Availability

Unfortunately, the Cotton Sampler is not one of the more widely available patterns. Queen made both versions over the years before going out of business. Great Eastern Cutlery has made the latter version I described but, like most of their patterns, it has become highly collectible and difficult to find since 2013 (the only time it was made). The only company I’m aware of that offers an array of widely available Cotton Samplers is Rough Ryder.

AMKCA Club Knives

Conclusion

My interest in the Cotton Sampler pattern was piqued by an unexpected addition to my collection. I attend the Allegheny Mountain Knife Collectors Association club, and one of the members has been a supporter and a huge asset to my journey into vintage traditional knives. He knows I am a GEC enthusiast and collect the AMKCA club knives, so he offered to sell me his favorite of the club knives at a fair price. It happened to be the 2013 GEC #74 Cotton Sampler. I agreed happily, both because it’s a great knife unlike anything in my collection and because I appreciated that he thought of me when he decided to sell the knife. I have enjoyed getting to know this pattern through my example and to display it with my other AMKCA knives. While I haven’t been able to find as much historical information on the Cotton Sampler, I’ve still enjoyed getting to know it. I hope you’re able to check out this unique pattern also!

GEC’s Interpretation of the Cotton Sampler

Sources

History of the Cotton Sampler on BladeForums

What is Cotton Sampling on BladeForums

Cotton Sampler Pattern on KnifeMagazine

Cotton Sampler Question on AAPK

Cotton Sampler Mini Review on BladeForums

Great Eastern Cutlery Production Totals

I sincerely thank you for your time, support, and interest! Don’t forget to tell your friends about KnifeThoughts.com, subscribe via email, and share this article on social media. You can find Knife Thoughts on YouTube where I have hundreds of knife videos, as well as on Instagram and Facebook! You can find all my latest links at LinkTr.ee/KnifeThoughts

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5 Unusual but Important Reasons to Sharpen Your Own Knives

So, you’ve found your perfect knife (or, if you’re like me, your latest in a string of perfect knives) and you’ve put it to good use. The edge just doesn’t have that lightsaber sharpness anymore, and it’s in need of a thorough sharpening. Now you’re faced with a decision; should you have it professionally sharpened, or should you do it yourself?

There are a multitude of reasons to sharpen your own knives. However, there are a few ‘pros’ of sharpening your own knives that you might never have thought of before. Read on for 5 obscure but important reasons that sharpening is a great skill to practice, and for what I use to sharpen my knives!

It’s Good for your Knives

When you’ve resolved to sharpen your own knives you’re less likely to abuse them. Things like prying, hacking, scraping, and other abusive tasks often don’t only dull a knife’s edge, but also actually damage it with chips, rolls, and broken tips. These types of damage take much more time to correct than a normal dulled edge. So, since we all value our limited time, having to sharpen the damage out from abusive use of your knife makes you less willing to undertake those types of use. That said, you can use your knife appropriately to your hearts content without worry; almost every well heat treated steel can be brought from dull to sharp with ease using the right tools (read on for what I use).

It’s Good for the Environment

Sharpening your own knives reduces waste and pollution. If you send your knives out to be sharpened you’ll use a box, packing tape, etc. that could have been saved. Then it’ll have to be shipped (or driven by you, in rare cases where you have a professional sharpening service nearby) likely hundreds of miles by truck, contributing harmful emissions to the ecosystem. Then all that will have to be done again for the knife to get back to you. Doesn’t learning how to sharpen your own knives sound worth the slight trouble, and great eventual satisfaction, if it can help keep our planet and its inhabitants healthy?

It’s Good for your Mental Health

Sharpening knives can act as a form of mindful meditation. Mindful meditation is a practice of focusing on a particular phenomenon, often the breath, and allowing thoughts to go by without attaching to them. While meditation might seem hokey or overly trendy to some, it’s been shown to have real benefits for things like productivity, mental health, and cognitive function. Knife sharpening lends itself extremely well to mindfulness practice because it requires repetitive focused action (the passing of the edge on the stone at a maintained angle) with tactile feedback that provides a very fitting phenomenon on which to rest the mind.

It’s Good for Travel

Sharpening your own knives, or at least knowing how to sharpen the knife you’re using, makes travel more convenient. The last thing you want, if you’re able to bring your EDC with you on your travels, is to be half way through a trip and your knife already dulled. Also, I (and I think many others) prefer to go the AirBnB route when traveling so that I can experience the area more fully… and cook for myself, rather than having to go out for every meal. The problem is, most places you stay have knives that just don’t live up to the sharpness we enthusiasts have come to expect. While you often can’t bring your knives with you when you travel, you can almost always bring sharpening gear (especially something like the minimalist setup I use, described below). That way with just a few minutes of work you can have sharp and usable tools, whether it be your knife or your home away from home’s knife.

It’s Good for your Relationships

Everybody loves to have a sharp knife. Being able to sharpen your friends’ and family’s knives can be a gift that you can give over and over. The great thing is, it’s not something that only knife enthusiasts appreciate! The vast majority of people use a kitchen knife regularly, and most struggle to keep them sharp. With a portable setup you can always be ready to make someone’s day by sharpening their carry knife or kitchen knife.

My Sharpening Setup

So what do I use to sharpen? I prefer to use a minimalist setup for the majority of my sharpening. For a long time I used a DMT Diafold, a Spyderco Double Stuff, and the Stropping Young Lad Pocket Strop. However, I’ve now pared it down to an even more minimal setup that works just as well for me: the WESN Pocket Sharpener and a Sunshine Cloth. I’ve been extremely impressed with the versatility of both these items. The WESN stone has an aggressive 400 grit diamond plate on one side, which I find can be used both to cut a new apex if the edge is damaged and also to bring an existing apex together. The other side of the WESN stone is a fine ceramic plate that is great for touching up an edge from working sharp to shaving sharp. It’s literally pocket sized and comes in a nice leather slip, so you can take it pretty much anywhere. I have really been enjoying this stone, and it has effectively filled the roles of both the DMT and Spyderco stones I previously used. While I still love and use the Stropping Young Lad Pocket Strop, it’s no longer in stock and the maker isn’t sure when or if more will be available. I have used Sunshine Cloths for years and they work surprisingly effectively as a strop, as well as their normal use for polishing and cleaning. I wrap a Sunshine Cloth around my WESN Pocket Sharpener and slap a rubber band around it and I’m pretty much covered for most sharpening jobs, and the whole setup fits easily in a pocket. I highly recommend these tools for a simple sharpening setup!

Here’s a great article from WESN on how to use their Pocket sharpener

Conclusion

While these are all great reasons to learn to sharpen knives and to sharpen your own knives, sharpening is also just plain fulfilling. Maintaining your own knives and helping others maintain theirs provides a feeling of small but useful accomplishment and self sufficiency, and we all deserve to feel that way sometimes. I often say “the world feels right when your knives are sharp”, and I think if you decide to sharpen your own knives you’ll understand what I mean!

I sincerely thank you for your time, support, and interest! Don’t forget to tell your friends about KnifeThoughts.com, subscribe via email, and share this article on social media. You can find Knife Thoughts on YouTube where I have hundreds of knife videos, as well as on Instagram and Facebook! You can find all my latest links at LinkTr.ee/KnifeThoughts

Some links in this article are affiliate links. That means that if you click them and purchase the product you won’t pay any more than you normally would, but I get a commission from the sale. This is just a way for you to support Knife Thoughts. Be sure to try my discount codes “KnifeThoughts” or “KT10”!

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Waynorth Cutlery “OIL THE JOINTS” Hats Available Now!

Waynorth Cutlery "OIL THE JOINTS" Hat

Waynorth Cutlery “OIL THE JOINTS” Hat

Show your support for Waynorth Cutlery with this “OIL THE JOINTS” hat. It’s 100% cotton with a low profile, an adjustable strap, and curved visor.

$21.00
Shop now

Show your support for Waynorth Cutlery with this minimalist “OIL THE JOINTS” baseball hat! As with the shirts, a portion of the sales of these will go directly to Charlie Campagna AKA Waynorth. Another huge thanks to Steve for creating the design files to match the tang stamps. The framed “OIL THE JOINTS” design looks really clean in embroidery. As for the hat, it’s the classic cotton unstructured baseball hat with a curved bill and adjustable buckle strap. I think you’ll like it!

I think these turned out great!

I sincerely thank you for your time, support, and interest! Don’t forget to tell your friends about KnifeThoughts.com, subscribe via email, and share this article on social media. You can find Knife Thoughts on YouTube where I have hundreds of knife videos, as well as on Instagram and Facebook! You can find all my latest links at LinkTr.ee/KnifeThoughts